Ep 183: The Dark Side of GLP-1 Weight Loss Drugs (Ozempic, Mounjaro, Zepbound) with Amy Wilson
Diet myths got you stuck? Struggling to lose weight NO MATTER WHAT you try? GLP-1 drugs: Magic bullet or risky business?
Today, Philip (@witsandweights) brings on Amy Wilson, a Board Certified Geriatric Pharmacist, a certified fitness professional, and a certified nutrition coach, for an engaging conversion on GLP-1 weight loss drugs. Amy's mission is to empower her clients to take control of their bodies and minds without feeling tied down by the scale. In this episode, they explore the root causes of obesity and weight gain, as well as the origins and current use of GLP-1 drugs like Ozempic, Wegovy, Mounjaro, and others for diabetes and weight loss. Tune in to learn about the pros and cons of these drugs and discover practical lifestyle perspectives for managing these conditions. They also share the secret sauce to achieving your health goals, providing you with actionable steps to take control of your health.
Today, you’ll learn all about:
2:19 Amy's journey from pharmacist to fitness and nutrition coach
5:53 The rising obesity, its root causes, and weight gain
10:05 Debunking dieting myths and the concept of body fat set points
12:56 Reversing the effects of dieting at any age
14:04 Introduction to GLP-1 drugs: a new approach to weight management
20:25 Long-term impact of GLP-1 drugs and the importance of maintaining muscle mass
22:11 A safe way to use GLP-1 drugs for weight management
28:01 Discussion on the impact of lifting weights and proper nutrition on weight loss
32:16 Effective dosage and the varying responses to weight loss drugs
36:19 Initial steps for starting a health journey
42:33 How to be metabolic flexible or a fat burner
44:54 Walk after meals to manage your blood sugar
47:02 What questions did Amy wish Philip had asked
49:10 Where to find Amy
50:07 Outro
Episode resources:
Website: amykwilson.com– send a message that says “witsandweights” to get the free 5-Day Fat Loss Blueprint (recipes)
Episode summary:
In the latest episode of Wits & Weights, host Philip Pape sits down with Amy Wilson, a board-certified geriatric pharmacist and certified fitness professional, to discuss the transformative power of prioritizing health and strength over chasing unrealistic body standards. We delve into the root causes of obesity, the role of GLP-1 drugs, and the importance of holistic health strategies.
Amy Wilson opens the episode by challenging the conventional wisdom that places a premium on achieving a certain body size. Instead, she advocates for training with the goal of future health and strength. According to Amy, being slightly above what society deems an "ideal size" but maintaining strength and functionality can have profound benefits for long-term health. She emphasizes that being able to perform everyday tasks, like getting out of a chair or carrying groceries, is far more important than fitting into a smaller size.
One of the key discussions in the episode revolves around the role of GLP-1 drugs like semaglutide and terzepatide, commonly known by their brand names Ozempic and Wegovy. Originally developed for diabetes management, these drugs have gained popularity for their weight loss effects. Amy explains that while these medications can be effective, they are not without risks. Potential side effects include nausea, irreversible gastroparesis, and muscle loss. She stresses that a holistic approach, which combines medication with proper nutrition and lifestyle changes, is essential for sustainable health outcomes.
The conversation takes a deep dive into the complexities of using GLP-1 drugs for weight loss. Amy shares a compelling real-life case of a client who experienced significant appetite suppression while on Ozempic, making it challenging to maintain a moderate calorie deficit and proper nutrition. This led to muscle degradation, highlighting the misconception that exercise and high protein intake can completely offset the negative effects of these drugs. Amy underscores the importance of a strategic, temporary use of these medications, if at all, and the need for physicians to guide patients through a holistic health plan.
Amy also tackles the pressing issue of polypharmacy, where individuals end up taking multiple medications to counteract the side effects of their primary treatment. She points out that the muscle loss associated with Ozempic use often leads to the prescription of additional medications, creating a cycle of dependency. Amy advocates for lifestyle changes, such as learning proper nutrition and incorporating resistance training, to avoid long-term health consequences like frailty and medication dependency.
The episode doesn't shy away from addressing the societal pressures and misconceptions surrounding body image. Amy calls out the unrealistic standards set by the media and celebrities, who often claim to have tried everything without achieving desired results. She argues that many of these individuals have not fully committed to a holistic approach that includes weightlifting and real food. By focusing on sustainable habits and long-term health, Amy aims to inspire listeners to break free from the diet culture and prioritize their well-being.
Amy provides actionable steps for starting a healthy lifestyle, especially for older adults. She emphasizes the importance of reducing chronic inflammation and managing cravings through better nutrition. Amy advises incorporating whole, real foods into daily meals and avoiding ultra-processed foods. She also highlights the significance of seeking help and staying away from quick-fix solutions, which often do more harm than good.
The episode wraps up with a discussion on the critical role of insulin in our bodies. Amy explains that insulin is not the enemy, as commonly portrayed. Instead, it plays a vital role in managing blood sugar levels. She emphasizes the importance of whole food nutrition, balanced meals, and regular physical activity, particularly weightlifting, to enhance insulin sensitivity. Simple movements, like walking after meals, can have a significant impact on both physical and mental health.
In conclusion, this episode of Wits and Weights with Amy Wilson is a treasure trove of insights and practical advice for anyone looking to take control of their health. Amy's expertise and passion for preventing lifestyle diseases through nutrition and fitness shine through, offering listeners a roadmap to achieve both mental and physical strength. By prioritizing long-term health and well-being over unrealistic body standards, Amy and Philip aim to inspire a shift in how we approach fitness and health. Tune in to this enlightening episode and take the first step towards a healthier, stronger you.
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Transcript
Amy Wilson 00:00
being just a little bit more on a fluffy side or a little bit bigger than what you think you should be. But that strong, guess what you get out of a chair? That's huge. Can you bring all your groceries in and one trip? That's huge. What we need to be doing is training for our future self and quit worrying about that size 246 Whatever we're trying to get into in those jeans, and think about okay, you know what, I have the button legs and that's okay.
Philip Pape 00:28
Welcome to the wit's end weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Whitson weights community Welcome to another episode of the weights and weights Podcast. Today. It's pleasure to welcome Amy Wilson to the show. Amy is a board certified geriatric pharmacist, a certified fitness professional and a certified nutrition coach who's shaking up the fitness industry and helping her clients take control of their health. We'd love to hear that on this show. With over 30 years of experience, Amy specializes in creating personalized health plans that address her client's unique barriers so they can be successful. She is very passionate about preventing and reversing diseases like pre diabetes, diabetes, high cholesterol, using lifestyle using nutrition and fitness. Amy's mission is to empower her clients to feel in control of their bodies and minds without feeling tied down by the scale. So in our conversation, today, you are going to learn the root causes of obesity and weight gain, the origins and current use of GLP one drugs like the sun, magnetite, and tears appetite and some of the newer ones that I can't even pronounce drugs like ozempic, Manjaro, and others for diabetes. And now weight loss. There are pros there are cons, long term effects and what most people can do instead from a lifestyle perspective. Amy, it is a pleasure to have you on the show. Hey,
Amy Wilson 02:06
Philip, I am so excited to be here my favorite conversation to have awesome,
Philip Pape 02:09
yes. So you had this long career as a pharmacist and nutrition coach, and I know you talk about the trifecta kind of unique combination of your background and skills. And now you're kind of helping people, I'll say disrupt the diet industry because sometimes that's what we need to do when we talk about these topics. How did your background and pharmacy influence the approach that you have today with nutrition and weight management, for example,
Amy Wilson 02:32
it was kind of like my own journey, really, because I became a fitness instructor at 17. I was one of the people who always tried to out train a bad diet. Let's just be honest. That's what that's what I did. That's and that's what a lot of us still try to do. We try to outwork out the things that we're eating, like, oh, you see all the T shirts, I run for tacos, or whatever it is. And it wasn't really until I became a geriatric pharmacist and working in the nursing homes, that I really started seeing more lifestyle diseases, because here's what's happening is that it used to be in what you're probably thinking of a nursing home is that it's people in the later stages of life, their 90s are hundreds, that they can't live by themselves. They're frail. The problem is that is not what's going on today. Now it's 40s 50s 60 year olds, who are in nursing homes, a good majority have been because of maybe lifestyle, maybe there's a stroke, an early age, heart attacks, diabetes, which causes issues with your kidneys or renal disease could be because they lost a limb due to diabetes. So I started looking at this with my journey going through perimenopause, menopause, gaining weight. And it was one of those aha moments. I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm still trying to outrun a bad diet. But it goes deeper than that. It goes deeper than chasing skinny, which a lot of us have been doing forever. It's now that hey, I'm in midlife. And I don't feel like I'm in my 50s. I still feel like I'm in my 20s and 30s. And I want to make sure that in my 80s and 90s, I'm feeling like I'm in my 50s and 60s. So it's now stopped at Chase skinny is now starting to focus on health and strength, which is nutrition and weightlifting, to change the course to changes our course. And what I started seeing was that, hey, with my clients that came to me, it's like, they'll go the doctor, the doctor says, You're pre diabetic, or maybe you're diabetic, or you have a heart condition that your high blood pressure or high cholesterol. And it kind of means like, Hey, I don't want to be on medication. Well, I'm a pharmacist who prefers that you're not on medication, medication is a great thing. It's it should be the last resort shouldn't be the first thing you can reverse. So that's where I started seeing pictures like you know what, we can prevent you from being in one of my nursing homes. That's really my ultimate mission is let's stop that. Let's start working on prevention. Then, which is what we should be doing for health care, instead of going for the medication. And thinking that, Oh, there's a pill to fix that, how about we start using food and fitness, fix it, you're
Philip Pape 05:10
speaking my language and that of those who listen to the show 100%, especially when you talk weightlifting, because I agree as well. And I think until you get into this space, and start to apply these, whether it's to yourself or with clients or others, and you see a life changing, just small differences in your habit in a very short period, I mean, like, you know, I didn't start really getting in shape tells almost 40, and I've seen my peers degrade. And again, I'm only in my 40s. And yet I see people who look 1020 years older. And, you know, it often does come right down to muscle, muscle mass and just having that lifestyle. And doctors give the typically the same advice, diet and exercise, do your cardio, you know, cut out this cut out that right, I was surprised for you to say that nursing homes are now filled with much younger people, like I just wasn't aware of that statistic. And I think it's another wake up call, perhaps for what we need to do here. So I guess let's dissect a little bit, the obesity and the muscle mass kind of both sides of that equation and the root causes of all of this, because I think that's going to lead to when we talk about these medications, and people who are on them, and maybe things that they're not doing that they could be doing and maybe don't have to be on them. That's where people want to be. So let's talk about the rise in obesity. And what they're linked to beyond the obvious is the way I'll put it. So
Amy Wilson 06:27
let's take a trip down memory lane, if you know and all of us who are maybe Gen X. And even if you're a millennial, you'll kind of get this in the 70s. If you look back at pictures, people were skinny, you're like, wow, what happened? Well, the unfortunate part of the 70s is that people were having heart attacks. And it was a lot. And so we had all these groups saying, oh my gosh, we gotta do something about all these heart attacks, it must be fat. It must be all the saturated fat that's causing it. So instead of kind of looking at other things are like it's FAT, FAT, FAT, FAT, FAT. That's that's the problem. Guess what happened in the 80s? We replaced fat we went low fat. We went fat free snack. Well, snapper. Exactly. That's the class is established. Yeah. And the thing is, what we have a lot of belief systems and a lot of our belief system is multimedia, or things that we read over and over and over again, that just kind of grains us. So we had this where fat was bad. The problem is, is when you go with fat, free low fat, you're now going with additives, chemicals, preservatives and sugar. So we replace something we replace being relatively thin, and having some heart disease, with now being overweight, and diabetes, and being insulin resistance, because our bodies are just this huge chemical reaction, huge chemical reaction. They require vitamins, minerals, proteins, fats, carbohydrates, they don't require preservatives, chemicals, artificial stuff. And in fact, they don't have no idea what to do with that causes us to be hungry. When you think about going to something Chinese will say just because you're just having a lot of carbohydrates, it spikes your blood sugar, you're usually hungry a couple hours later. Same thing when you're eating a bunch of diet food. When people when we are on a diet and you're eating the link cuisines, the healthy choice, the diet bars, the diet shakes, you're starving all the times because you're not giving your body the nutrition that it needs. So we're in this diet culture, and we're bigger than ever, which is just crazy. So we've created this culture, we've also created the convenience culture that, Hey, Mom, you're too busy to cook, come to the drive thru, let us help you let us make your life easier. And a lot of these conveniences have also caused us to have a very poor relationship with food not and get the best food in our system. And then we're also addicted to this food, which causes our problem now as we have obesity, and now we're thinking that oh, I can't do anything about it. I don't have time to cook. I don't have time to do this. I don't understand what food is correct. What food should I eat? How much do I need? What do I need? Why are diets bad? It's there's so much misinformation in there. And all we're doing is making it easier, unfortunately, to gain weight and to be out of shape and to not be healthy. Yeah. So
Philip Pape 09:31
I mean, I've heard this termed as the obesogenic environment. And like you said, there's a huge not only miss information, but now Miss alignment between probably what our bodies will thrive from and be nourished by and what is out there and what we're seeking, through, you know, a lifetime from childhood of having these in our food environment. And we see this with other cultures around the world who are untouched by Western culture and then they significantly decline in that you know, once they get access to it, even the hodza tribe now that you Hear they've got some westernization going on. And they're starting to get you know, poor outcomes. Let before we move on from this, there's always the debate about Is it food? Is it behavior? Is it emotional eating? There's even the theories about like body fat setpoint. And I don't know if you know Stephen guy net? Is that how you pronounce his name? The brain? What's it called, he wrote a book about the brain hungry brain, I think it was called about like the programming of our brain and also how our body fat setpoint tends to worsen as we yo yo diet over time. I mean, kind of touch on some of those so that we can maybe simplify it for the listener to say, No, it is really this, but also we can do something about it. And we're not going to like throw you under the bus and say it's your fault. But we also know we can take power over it. So
Amy Wilson 10:45
especially for females, since we've been dieting since probably age 1516. Every time we dieted, we slowed our metabolism down. So don't hate me ladies, and then do this that happens to every time you starve yourself, your body is going to need fuel for something, your body needs to run, our bodies are programmed to try to survive. You need amino acids is coming from your muscle, you need vitamins minerals is coming from your bones. You don't give it what it needs is going to figure out a way to survive. The problem is every single time that you did this, because go back and think about oh my god, that that one diet that one diet works. So well. I got my skinny jeans or I gotten the dress that I wanted. And it was great. And then I get a lot of clients like this. They're like, but why are things taken so slow? Now I said, didn't really work. You're here. Now, it didn't work. If something can't work for the long term, if you can't sustain it, that means it didn't work. So every time that you did one of these diets, every time that you lost weight, you pretty much lost muscle, you might have lost a little body fat, a little bit of water, but you lost muscle muscles or metabolism muscles or fountain of youth. When you lose that you slow your metabolism down every single time and then then all of a sudden 4050 Your hormones switch and they start changing. And you can't understand why you're gaining weight so fast. Yes. Does it happened with perimenopause, menopause? It absolutely does it happen with men as they get older, especially they have body fat because now they have estrogen because they have body fat. So when you start doing that, the weight keeps coming on because we kind of set ourselves up for this. But the good news is, is that yes, you can reverse Yes, you can get that muscle back, you can decrease your body fat, you can change your body composition. But you can't do it starving, and you can't do it with doing hours of cardio. Couldn't have
Philip Pape 12:36
said it better. That was a good summary of the whole idea that yeah, if you're constantly, like you said, starving yourself, you're you're accelerating this process. You're losing muscle with age from that from the fact that you're not using it probably. And then hormones accelerate that process even further period post menopause, but also with men and lower testosterone, everything else. But you can reverse it at any point tell us how how old can you be before none of this works?
Amy Wilson 13:00
Oh, I have clients in their 70s and 80s. So I would say you know exactly what I tell anybody. If you want to change, if you are ready, it doesn't matter how old you are. I mean, we see it all the time, you'll see stories and People Magazine or GM A Good Morning America, have somebody in who you can make consider old elderly, who totally changed who they were. And maybe they got rid of a disease state or they listened to disease state, because they finally said it's enough. I'm done, I am going to get healthy. And this is going to be who I am now. And I think that is what you have to decide is that I always had people was like, oh, but can they want to pick and choose that I want to do this. But I don't want to do this, I want to do this or I want to do this, you have to realize is that there are a bunch of puzzle pieces. You have to put them all together? Does it have to be difficult? No. And that's what it was like, let me get my soapbox is out my feet. It does not have to be difficult. But you do have to do some changing. And you do have to be changing your beliefs and some myths that you've been believing for maybe years.
Philip Pape 14:04
Yeah, that's a good way to put it. We're gonna tease now. So some of these lifestyle things we're talking about. We're gonna tease that for later in the episode because what I want to do now is segue into the origin of some of these weight loss drugs. And then kind of the journey of you know, people's usage of them how we think of them, and then eventually tie that into what can we do instead? Like, what's the more optimal approach that gives you control over your your situation, that GLP one drugs and you can get as technical as you want. I love geeking out on this stuff and a lot of the listeners do so don't worry about that. They're super popular we have there's a lot of confusion over naming, but I know there's the compound names like semaglutide. And by the way the The Wall Street Journal had in their podcast recently, like a background on these drugs from the 90s. And they talked to the guy who invented the original one and he said it's pronounced a magnetite. I don't know if you agree with that a lot. A lot of people say semaglutide So anyway, he said that's where Oh like Yeah, so it's a magnetite or is Episode and others that had then have brand names, very well known like ozempic will go V Manjaro. And then you pointed out on zip bound as well. So now these drugs were originally designed for diabetes, and how do they What's the origin that you know of? And how do they work in the body control to change things? Like I know they control hormones, or maybe blood sugar? How do they work? Exactly. So
Amy Wilson 15:23
it is a huge discovery. So GLP one is a hormone that's in the gut. Let me say, like I said before, is that medication is sometimes needed. Absolutely. But we have to realize this medication sometimes in a lot of ways is a treatment not a cure, especially for lifestyle diseases. What we want to do is tried to cure it with fitness and nutrition. Now, if you're type one, but type one diabetics won't be on GLP ones. But yes, we've had GLP ones for years, and I'll get that people out. But it's been safe. Okay. GOP ones have been pills that you take on a daily basis for diabetes. With those there's been a small amount of weight loss, not a lot, maybe 5%. When someone's diabetic type two, that is that is good. We want them to lose some weight. The problem or I'll say the problem is, is that what happened with GOP ones is that they were a daily pill, right? Then they start looking at a once a week injection, and that's where everything changed. So what is it GLP One gop one is a glucagon like peptide that is secreted in your gut. It helps with insulin secretion, it decreases or inhibits glucose, glucagon secretion, and then it also slows down gastric motility in the injection form, it's like GLP, one times 100. So it's more powerful. We didn't realize that there's also GLP ones in your brain. That's just recent, which I think is just let me get out. Holy freaking cool, right? Totally cool. It's like, okay, so why didn't the pill work? Well, what happens when you eat because guess what, you could stimulate GLP one naturally, guess because it works naturally, we have it in our system naturally. When you have fiber, when you have protein, when you have high water content, vegetables, when you have healthy fats, that will stimulate your GLP one naturally, the thing about GLP one, it has what's called a very short half life, it gets released, it does its job, it tells you not to eat anymore, it slows down motility, and then it goes bye bye. Perfect is doing what your body wants. Now, the injections have a very long half life. And so they last in the body a long time. That's where we're getting some of the issues with possibly crossing the blood brain barrier, because now we're seeing that there are GLP one receptors in the brain, why it may be helping with people with addiction issues, that that might be part of an addiction, which is kind of cool. But what it also does is it turns on, so maybe nausea receptors, it can really slow down your gut motility to the point where it causes something called gastroparesis, which is the total shutdown of your gut. That's not a good thing. And it's unfortunately not reversible. And the other issues is that it makes you nauseated, it makes you not hungry. And I know every female is going Yes, finally, I won't be hungry. But guess what, that's not a good thing. That really isn't a good thing. I know we crave food lessons, we crave food because of not feeding our bodies properly. Because we are what are called Sugar burners. You're constantly feeding your body carbohydrates and sugar and not getting also your fats and proteins and your good complex carbohydrates. And so you're balancing your blood sugar so you're not always reaching for those candy bars. So not being hungry and not eating. Remember, I told you what happens when our when we're younger and we stop eating we do we lose muscle and we start going from our bones. Well hello, midlife women, the thing that we don't need to do is lose muscle and lose things from our bones. You know, and then I see osteoporosis and men now don't need to be doing that either. So the problem with GOP ones is that yes, can they cause you to lose weight and be skinny? Yeah. But what we're going to start seeing in 456 years down the road with these people who have been on it for a long period of time. And I look first of all, if you're on it, I am not condemning you, because if you're on it, please be working with somebody to make sure that you're getting enough fuel and making sure that you're keeping your muscle if you are on it, and you're not doing that. What could possibly happen if you don't start taking care of your body and your fuel and your muscle and working on eating enough is that you're gonna lose muscle. Your bones are become brittle. And what we're gonna start seeing is frailty. And that's a geriatric term, meaning if you see somebody who is sure shuffling, who looks old, who looks like they just blow over if you just, you know, blow on them and they're gonna blow over those or do any bone will break any seconds. That's we're going to start seeing, we're gonna start seeing hip fractures, we're start seeing people in the nursing homes who are young due to a GOP one, because we're not, we're using this as a lifestyle drug without taking the responsibility to make sure that we're using it correctly.
Philip Pape 20:26
Good. Yeah, you touched Okay, two excellent topics we should get into one is going to be the muscle loss, I want to start there. And the other will be the what do we do in conjunction even if you are taking it to actually at least get the best result out of it? So first of all, muscle loss. All right, so we all we thought I shouldn't say we all know, but people will listen to this show have heard me say many times, if you're not strength training, and you lose weight, which is what most people are doing throughout their life, when they diet, they lose muscle mass, and then they gain fat back and they constantly get more skinny fat, or they just get overall closer to that obese level of body fatness. Does treatment with these GLP ones, increase muscle loss above and beyond what you would be if you were just in a crash diet on your own mimicking the same deficit as being on these drugs? Or is there something above and beyond that it's causing MSA,
Amy Wilson 21:11
it's above and beyond. And the reason is, most time a crash diet the most that you can be on it by yourself is five to 10 days, because by then you're like binge, right? Because that's what happens. Your body's like, feed me feed Asia. Yeah. Right. And the problem with the GOP once it turns that off, so you're never hungry. So it's kind of like your crash dieting for a very long period of time. body needs amino acids. It is going to get it from muscle. And then somebody's be like, Oh, but you know what, I'm going to work out too. And I'm going to lift weights so that I can keep my muscle, no wrong answer. Because if you're not giving your body what it needs, if you're not feeling your body, if you're not giving it protein, fats and carbohydrates, it's going to use it for just trying to make it's anything I'm trying to maintain. That's the point you're not even given enough to maintain, you're given enough maybe to function and that's it. And so there will be no muscleman maintain, there'll be no muscle building, and actually working out could be even been worse, unfortunately. Okay,
Philip Pape 22:12
no. So that's good. Yeah, you make a fair point that you could artificially be on a diet that would normally be completely unsustainable for a very long time, because you're on this drug, which a lot of people is the purported benefit of it for people until you explain to them all these dark sides. So I had a client, I probably had multiple other clients that were on this that I didn't know. But early on, I had a client who was diabetic who was on the original ozempic. For that, like this was right around the time, then the weight turned into a weight loss drug. And it was amazing that she could go weeks or months at a time in a calorie deficit. And always it was a 10 out of 10 on hunger, like no hunger, right? Yeah, to the point where I was, you know, I was worried, but I knew the symptoms of the drug. And we were trying to do all the right things, right. She was lifting weights, she was eating a lot of protein, she was balancing her meals, but you kind of have to force it right not forced to be you have to deliberately do those things. And we kept the weight loss moderate. So it was interesting, because She almost had trouble eating enough because of her appetite being so suppressed, eating enough to stay in a moderate deficit. It was like the drug was wanting to get her way down into this ridiculous rate of loss. Yeah. So then, given all that, is there any good way to use this, you mentioned treatment versus cure is there like, you get a boost initially to get into an unhealthy regime, and then you get off of it, or, you know, you take it for a while, get all your lifestyle and gear, and then you get off of it. You know, I just want to throw that out there. If there's a possibility of it.
Amy Wilson 23:38
There are physicians who are starting to do that and making sure that they are in conjunction with a healthy diet, making sure that they're getting everything they're coming in, and they're actually doing their body composition to show that if they start losing muscle, but the problem is there's very few who are doing that. And that I mean, that's right. And I hate to say it is a cash cow. It's a moneymaker, the Big Pharma has seen that you know what the biggest issue with ozempic Bulgogi is people losing muscle. So guess what? They're coming out with another medication. They're looking at another medication that's using for muscle preservation. Oh, I must say, perfect. That is amazing for someone with multiple sclerosis, that it's amazing for other other issues. So that's what it takes to get that kind of medication great. But you're looking at someone who has those epic, let's say they're having bowel issues. So they're on something for that they're having nausea, they're having on something for that. They are having muscle wasting. So they're on something for that. And it's like now you have this big polypharmacy to be skinny. You know, I totally get people are like I'm, I'm obese, I need something. This is what's working. Okay, well, then we need to start looking at the ramp to get off and that is slow and working with somebody because you're going to have to start learning how to eat what you need to eat. And you're gonna start having to learn how to lift and work out. And the biggest proponent, I was like, but I don't have time, I don't want to think about it. I don't want to have to think about to eat I don't want to think about working out is, as traders always say, choose your heart. What's your heart? Is your heart going to be in a nursing home in 10 years because of this? Or is your hard to learn how to change your lifestyle? For me is it's a no brainer. I work in the nursing home industry, I see what it's like, excuse my language. Hell, no. That's not what I want. And I think most people don't want that either. What we want to do is try to prevent that now. So yes, it's hard, but you can do it. And the thing is, we can make it doable with baby steps and you do not have to work out for hours. 30 minutes a day, do something called NEET, which is non exercise Activity Thermogenesis, which just means moving your body, and you are perfect. You are perfect. But we have to get out of our head, females. Skinny does not equal healthy. And being a certain size is maybe not what's right for you. And maybe it's being just a little bit more on a fluffy side or a little bit bigger than what you think you should be. But that strong. Guess what? Can you get out of a chair? That's huge. Can you bring all your groceries in and one trip? That's huge. What we need to be doing is training for our future self and quit worrying about that size. 246 Whatever we're trying to get into in those jeans, and think about okay, you know what, I have the button legs, and that's okay. Absolutely.
Philip Pape 26:36
We need to get this message out because I've met with cardiologists this week, and a trainer this week, and it seems to be coming up more and more and more this concept of there's body images, body fatness, they're skinny fat. And there's all of this gets conflated together. And at the end of the day, like you said, you want to be in your 70s or 80s, not able to get off the toilet, or in a nursing home or on 20 medications. And I see it in my family. And I'm sure everyone listening who has an older parent or grandparent has seen what frailty does. And it's not inevitable, like that's the message it's definitely not inevitable, even though it is 95% of the population probably would you said
27:13
before I started working with Philip, I had been trying to lose weight and was really struggling with consistency. But from the very beginning, Philip took the time to listen to me and understand my goals. He taught me the importance of fueling my body with the right foods to optimize my training in the gym, and I lost 20 pounds. More importantly, I gained self confidence. What sets Phillip apart is the personal connection. He supported and encouraged me every step of the way. So if you're looking for a coach who cares about your journey as much as you do, I highly recommend Philip Pape.
Philip Pape 27:55
Okay, before we get to more digging into lifestyle, then just back on the GOP one drugs here. I've heard the advertisements and I've heard the stories that come on in the media, where people will say, you know, I just couldn't lose weight, right? Weight loss resistance. And there was no way I was gonna lose weight. And now I'm on this and it changed my life. And it's always that message of, oh, I wish I could look at their lifestyle. I wish I could do like an intake with them and see the simple things they could change. I know they're not lifting weights. I hate to say it, I just know it. Because if you are all this stuff tends to go away. Even eat more food and lose weight. I mean, it's crazy. What are your thoughts on that? Kind of the more touchy side of it there?
Amy Wilson 28:31
I mean, okay, so let's talk about the celebrities who are on it. So I've tried everything. I tried everything and not Yeah, I would love to see okay, were you really lifting weights? What were you eating? Were you eating everything from the you know, the the craft cart that's coming in, that they're catering? Are you focusing on real food? Are you focusing on the diet, the quick fixes? Because let's face it in Hollywood, what they do is they do quick fixes, quick fixes, quick fixes, and guess what it catches up with you? So could some of them be insulin resistance? And maybe they do need this? Absolutely. There's a possibility, but you have to use it with nutrition and lifting weights. There's not Oh, let me just do as them pick and not forget about this part. No. Let's do this part. And if you have to have ozempic, okay, we'll work with you on that say, well, we'll figure this out. And maybe it'd be the lowest effective dose period. But let's try this first. And see what's gonna happen. Here's the problem. That slow, it's not sexy. It doesn't come off fast. It's frustrating. And what I I love James clear atomic habits. I want to read that book all the time for sure. My favorite analogy is his is with the ice cube. And this is why I tell my clients over and over and over again when they're like it's not coming. It's not coming. I'm like okay, first of all, this didn't happen overnight. We are retraining and healing your body from the inside out and you have to you don't see the inside You'll see what's going on, you don't see the chemical reactions, they're now going boom, you don't see the muscle being built. So I want you to think yourself as an ice cube. But an ice cube doesn't melt until it hits 32 degrees. But guess what happens at 2021 2223. All of a sudden, these atoms are moving faster and faster, all the molecules are moving faster and faster and faster and faster. But you don't see it. You still see this ice cube as a solid state 2930 31 It is still a frickin solid state. It's not moving. It's not budging. My body's not doing anything. And then all of a sudden at 32 We got a puddle 33 puddle puddle without any ice in it whatsoever. Holy crap, how the heck did that happen? It's the same thing with our bodies. So it may not be five days, it may not be a month, it might be like, for me, it was month six, that all of a sudden I lost seven inches from my hips. It was like, Excuse me, that wasn't because of that month. That was five months prior of everything working and building and getting to the point where it needed to be so that my body could start saying, Okay, we're doing muscle, and we're gonna start burning fat. Yeah, it takes time. And that's what people don't want. And unfortunately, we're in the, give it to me now society, Instagram, don't like it, flick up to the next real. Let me go look on it on Amazon so I can get it in one day. All those kinds of things, we have to realize that our body is not on that timetable. Our body's on whatever timetable it wants to be. And mine is different than yours. And different than whoever's listening to this right now is different. But the one thing I can tell you is that we don't get side effects from food and weightlifting, yeah, no,
Philip Pape 31:45
nothing but good side effects. Yeah, so the power of compound habits is so true. It's like this flatline, that starts to accelerate, eventually, someone else put it to me this way, at least in fitness. After three weeks, you start to feel it after three months, you start to see it. And after three years, you start to be it, it was like this idea of, you know, it's a really long term process. And even at even after a year or two, you're still figuring things out and developing the skills, but it's so much fun and actual process can be so much fun. If you you know, kind of do it the right way for you. You mentioned. Okay, so a couple other things that came up. One is, you mentioned the effective dose. I was wondering about that when it came to these drugs. It sounds like there are different dosage levels you can have. It's not just one pin that everybody gets, okay. Yeah, is it typically started at the lowest or started
Amy Wilson 32:32
at the lowest, and then they'll keep increasing and just know that there are people who are resistant to this drugs, too. There are people that it does not work with. So and then there's some people, you know, they'll get the side effects right away, then they refuse to do it, because they're getting the nausea, the vomiting, that they stop right away. If once again, everybody's different, we all have a different DNA profile. And that's what people have to realize is that, you know, and that's the beauty thing about the Earth, the world is that we are all different,
Philip Pape 32:57
right? And the new is of the new drugs you mentioned, Zep bound or something. What's different between that and the older ones? Oh,
Amy Wilson 33:03
well, I haven't seen the studies per se. I've just seen kind of like the blurbs that it's supposed to be even more potent, which scares me. But in America, what do we want? We want? We want it we want the max, we want the extraordinary and yeah, that's it's kind of scary.
Philip Pape 33:21
Well, especially since they are expensive. And I know of course people complain about it, and why isn't insurance covering it? Medicare doesn't cover weight loss, drugs, all this other stuff. And, you know, you've got the compounding pharmacy debate going on, because the FDA put it on their shortage list. And so you got calm, right, all of that. Like if you just don't take it, you don't have to worry about any of that. Yeah, yeah. What about somebody who has excessive weight to lose? Let's say they're up in the 300 plus range. I've heard these stories where the excuse the reason, whatever you want to call it is, you know, just to hurt too much to move and do any of the lifestyle things is, is there some point where you're like, yeah, maybe this actually is the last resort for someone? Or what are your thoughts?
Amy Wilson 34:00
You know, I can I understand that I do. But you if you're going to use it get with a trainer, what I have seen in my facilities is that those who are who are larger, doesn't seem to work very well. And which I don't know why. And it could be because they don't move. It could be because their BMR is so low, that just nothing's going to work. And yeah, they don't lose, they don't eat. They're not losing the body fat. And that could be that the resistance? I don't know. But okay, so if you start it starts coming off, and you're not hungry. Okay, but let's start working on your muscle mass. Let's start working because I hate saying at the end day, but I'm gonna say at the end of the day, if you don't have muscle I went to a symposium long time ago and it was a functional person. He said, our biggest issue growing old is gutlessness is not having glutes. Okay, yeah, for sure. I can I can totally see that because if you don't have glutes you're not able to walk you show Whoa, you're not able to stand? You're not sure what's his posture? You fall go in the bathroom. So yeah, you're gonna lose the weight. Great is may help your heart rate may decrease some of your diabetes great, but are you able to live? Are you able to lift? Are you able to walk? Are you able to do things?
Philip Pape 35:18
Yeah, we had Sue bush on the show recently talking about glute training. And yeah, that was the premise was the functionality of it not not to mention just having a shapely, but it's the function. So when people hurt, like when, again, when I hear these stories of larger individuals, and I've had a few clients that were on the bigger side, not necessarily like clinically obese, but like in the mid to upper two hundreds, let's say for a 510 male, you know, that's getting up there. Even if things hurt almost invariably, one of the solutions is just find a movement pattern that mimics something that eventually becomes a full range lifting pattern and start doing it and it will start to feel better. My own mom, she doesn't mind me talking about it like same thing. You know, painful knees, painful hips, we got to coming off the couch, getting that down the squats, all the pain went away. Now she goes to the gym. I mean, I love stuff like that, you know, when you're in your 60s and 70s. And then
Amy Wilson 36:06
you start eating right, and you reduce it and you start reducing the chronic inflammation that is also triggering pain. Yes, it's a win win. So virtuous cycle. Yes, it really is, you can't do one without the other, you really need both. So
Philip Pape 36:19
then let's talk about lifestyle, let's get a little bit more specific. If there's something you would recommend for those listening, who maybe are have been struggling with the whole cascade of things that we hear, it could be both, they've had trouble losing weight, due to whatever reason, they maybe have some cravings, emotional eating, quote, unquote, addicted to sugar and things like that. Although, you know, I like to say you wouldn't go and eat from a bag of sugar, you're really addicted to other things that happen to have sugar. And all those things. It's just somebody comes in, and they're just a mess. Okay? Where do you where do you start? Let's just go there.
Amy Wilson 36:54
The first thing is what I do and when I train, I have virtual clients. I'm all over the world. Let me tell you, it's not just the United States, it has this issue. I have clients in Europe and in in Australia, and it's the same thing. So don't worry, we're not alone.
Philip Pape 37:08
In Australia, I also have a lot of clients there. I don't speak English. But
Amy Wilson 37:13
with Australia, I think a two is that very similar to United States is that it's what they call takeaways, a lot of fast food, a lot of this kind of same issues that we have in America. The first thing to do is just okay, you have to look at everything. Look, so you made the decision to start, which is I think the biggest thing in the world is that you first of all said okay, I'm gonna start, think the worst thing that you can do is what the biggest loser does, and they're like, here you go, you're gonna work out for hours, we're going to give you all sorts of clean food, and we're not going to tell you how to do it. And then they leave you on your own. After all, we go back to home and you have to go to work. You have kids and stress so you didn't learn how to incorporate in your life. So let's take baby steps. First week. How about we start eating some real food? How about we start looking at we look at what you're eating everyday. How many times you're going through the drive thru? What are you putting in your coffee every morning? What are you having with your coffee? Are you grabbing the donut the bagel? The simple carbohydrates? Okay, can we replace that with some eggs? Can we replace that with steel cut oatmeal? can replace that with chicken? Yes, you can do steak, you can do fish, how about we do some real food. And maybe just do it's one meal every day. And then the next time is the next meal and next meal. The other thing too is don't be afraid to ask for help. There is no shame in the game. The what I want people to understand is that what I coach is all about nutrition and fitness. Stay away from the quick fixes stay away from the shakes, stay away from the things that promise yo a huge weight loss, you need to start looking at health and wellness and strength. And that's where I think a lot of us make mistakes, it's not that we're making mistakes is that we just don't know where to start. So if you can start getting rid of the processed food, the ultra processed food because frozen vegetables are processed and they're amazing. Fruit frozen fruits amazing too. So we start getting rid of the ultra processed foods is stuff that has lots of chemicals like additives, preservatives, colors, and going back to really the basics of what we should be eating, then you are going to feel better and it's going to start being you're gonna see the cascade effect, you're gonna see that, that this builds upon this that builds upon this and let me tell you, when you start eating real food, the amount that you have to eat is a lot is a lot. It is a lot of volume and you're like wait a minute, I should never be eating this much. I'm gonna gain weight. No, you won't because you're eating real food. If you think about Ultra processed food, it's already really disgusting but it's already processed for you and just digested for you and gets absorbed. Real food. It has to be digested. Not all the nutrients get absorbed. That's the difference. So you might be in taking the same amount of calories and I hate calories. We I could do macronutrients, we might be injustice in my calories, but you're getting so much more bang for your buck. And you're gonna start seeing differences in your body.
Philip Pape 40:14
Yeah, how many? How many women at least have I met that said, I don't know if I can eat this much protein. And I'm worried about gaining weight, adding all this protein and the opposite happens. You're like, I can't keep the weight on, I need actually more carbs and stuff now to make up
Amy Wilson 40:26
for it. Right. And what I tell people is that if it was working, you wouldn't be here. Right? Right. Yeah. So
Philip Pape 40:31
these are great. So first, I mean, you mentioned the decision to start. And actually, we don't want to take that for granted. Like there's a huge amount of gratitude, someone should have anyone listening to this show right now, in our millions of listeners are saying, You know what, you're right. The first thing I need to do is to decide and do that right now. Like, do that right now even pause the podcast and like, write down some of the stuff and do it. And then take baby steps, get that awareness do that audit. I love Amy's approach of, I call it additive nutrition. Somebody else I stole that term from somebody, but adding in the things that are, you know, real foods, we're not thinking of, I can't eat this, or I can't eat that. It's like just add these things in, it's going to crowd out some of the ultra processed foods. At the end of the day, Amy, you're not telling people to not eat anything processed at all are, you
Amy Wilson 41:16
know, this colonies or chocolate chip cookies I'm filming right now. But yeah, here's the thing is, is that I still eat burgers. In fact, I'm having one tonight. But it's, you know, I get real burgers, I'm making it, I'm grilling it. You know, I still do pizza and make it at home. We just forget that we can do things and it tastes so much better than going out and getting it for sure. And that's what we we kind of forget that I think what we need to remember is meaning we talked about just when we just just start writing things down, don't write down about being skinny, and why skinny is going to make you happy because it's not happiness starts now happiness starts on the inside, I want you to think about your future self. She's looking back at you. He's looking back at you. And he's saying thank you for doing XYZ, because I'm now on the beach, I'm now living my best life. So what is XYZ? What are you doing to make sure that yourself in 2030 years is living their best life? And then work backwards and start doing that and ask
Philip Pape 42:12
for help. You said no ask there's no shame ask for help right away. And that can come in many forms. So absolutely love that. I did want to one one side tangent we didn't get into any detail on but I think it's important. We talked about health beyond the muscle mass and everything else, blood sugar, and kind of insulin sensitivity and all of that, that people are often concerned about, you know, before we even get to pre diabetic or worse than that, what should people be aware of, and what kind of misinformation is there because I feel like there's a lot of it. So
Amy Wilson 42:41
and then as you get older, there is a possibility of of having a higher agency agency as a snapshot of what your blood sugar has been doing the past three months. So when we only eat processed foods, or called or processed foods, we're only going for sugar and you're hungry every two hours. That means what you called a sugar burner. Well, we want you to be as what's called metabolic flexible that you are also a fat burner. And to do that we do it sales called blood sugar stabilization. And when you eat a protein, fat and carbohydrate each time that's going to help slow down digestion is going to help slow the the release of sugar into your bloodstream which will cause insulin to be released. And by the way, insulin is not a bad thing. A get is like insulin is the devil No, it's not our once again our buys a chemical reaction, we eat our blood sugar gets raise. Insulin does its job. It says hey, muscles, liver open up, I'm bringing you energy. The problem is, is when we keep eating a lot of crap. And we keep flooding our blood with sugar and insulin keeps getting released. And the muscles are like saying the receptors like you know what talk to the hand, I am so tired of you knocking on my receptor door I am not opening up. And then that's why we get increase in blood sugar. We are seeing it more because of the ultra processed food because of the fact that we don't move because we don't lift weights. So stop the increase, stop the changes in your blood sugar now to the negative effect. And start working on whole food nutrition start getting that lifting in. The more muscle you have, the more insulin receptors you have, the less your blood sugar is going to be
Philip Pape 44:29
for sure that's an empowering message because these are simple changes like the balancing of your macros. There are a lot of benefits to doing that period. It one of them is just practically if you're like well I'm trying to hit certain amount of protein fats and carbs if I just eat balanced meals I'm gonna get there and it's not this like race of oh, now I got to do carbs and protein. Yeah, and so that's really important and you mentioned insulin and I don't know if you said glucagon but I know we can get into pancreas and all that. But lifting weights muscle mass also increase your insulin sensitivity quite a bit, don't they? Yes,
Amy Wilson 45:00
I do. And the only thing you can do is just go for a walk after you eat after Yes, yeah. And it doesn't have to be long. It's just a nice pace. And what that's going to do is that's going to bring your blood sugar down. Because guess what you're using your glutes, your legs, you're using all your muscles, your muscle needs energy is going to take it from the blood glucose.
Philip Pape 45:18
Amazing how that works. If you just use your body and the way it's intended, and not sit around either I'm having more on that message lately is lift weights. Move. Don't not move. Like I think there are three distinct buckets. Yeah.
Amy Wilson 45:31
Well, we get you know, we get in America in America is that one is good. 10 is better. And we think Okay, move means that we have to leave it all on the floor. Great. Okay. I am an instructor. I understand. I used to always say you got to leave it on the floor. It doesn't count unless your DNA is on the floor. Yes, yes, you do. You need to hit and do your cardiovascular training. Absolutely. But not every single time and not for hours. Just moving everyday. I have standing desks. So I stand during the day, going for a walk so underrated. We think that we can't do something for an hour. It's not worth it. No. Everything adds up.
Philip Pape 46:06
And it's great for your mental health too. Yeah, just like a 10 minute walk. Yeah, just feeling a little bit down. If you're feeling like stressed, go for a walk, you'll see how much it improves your mood. If there's one thing you had to say me this, this has been incredible. And the time is flying by if there's one thing, one piece of advice that you would give of either everything we've talked about or even something we haven't today to take control their health, what is it?
Amy Wilson 46:30
And I always say this, people always ask me, What's the secret sauce? How is it that you can stay healthy? How is it that some of your clients have been able to to drop the weights or get healthy? And I always tell you, you're the secret sauce, you hold all the keys to be able to get to your next level to get to where you want to go. You just have to decide, but you have the secret sauce.
Philip Pape 46:55
You are the secret sauce. I'm going to quote that. You don't have that trademark, do I? All right. So I do ask this of all guests. I don't know if you heard it on a podcast of mine. But it's one question Did you wish I had asked and what is your answer? You
Amy Wilson 47:09
know, I think we touched upon everything. It's, I don't I always say it's like, you know, it's what asked me that. It's like what one question. You know, I think that the one question would be, why should you not ever do working out or nutrition? And
Philip Pape 47:28
that's an interesting one. Okay. All right. play devil's advocate. Yeah, devil's advocate.
Amy Wilson 47:31
And the answer is, there's not a reason. Oh, there is not, there is no reason. And we have just been kind of brainwashed to think that, you know, this is just the way it is. This is where I am. It's my DNA. Yes, we can get in the DNA talk sometime. Now it's not you can change your DNA, you can change the script, you can change anything. You
Philip Pape 47:55
know, that is a very profound statement. And I want people to percolate on that a bit. Specifically, the idea that I've ever read, read the paper actually still read the physical paper on Sundays, believe it or not, and they have the little health section and it's always this like, fufu article about like, seven ways to better health. I'm very cynical about these now. But and they rarely mentioned lifting weights. And I think that's a non negotiable, like you said, I know you use the term movement and exercise. But would you agree that like, you have to be lifting weights? Yeah. And it doesn't
Amy Wilson 48:24
have to be you know, I get women all the time. But I don't want to be Arnold I don't want to look like a man. Girlfriend. Not gonna happen. Not gonna. Not gonna happen. You are lifting your dog. You're lifting your grandkids, you lift your kids, you lifted the groceries, start training for that. Make it easier. Yeah,
Philip Pape 48:41
it's important because I do see in some of these articles are like, you know, just move a little bit every day. I'm like, Okay, well, I guess if you're not moving, that's nice. But let's get the message out there to really optimize your, your health,
Amy Wilson 48:51
the shape that you want. The shape that women want, doesn't come with dieting doesn't come with hours on the treadmill or the Stairmaster or the elliptical, it comes from lifting weights, that's really the shape that you want.
Philip Pape 49:03
That's right. That's how you become Superwoman. Lean, live, fear, strong, whatever resonates with you. And, Amy, this has been a pleasure so much, where can listeners learn more about you and your work?
Amy Wilson 49:13
So if they follow the whole time, they could either do two things, they can go to my website,
Philip Pape 49:19
wait a minute, don't say that. Everyone's still listening right now. Okay. So
Amy Wilson 49:23
essentially, listen, essentially, listen to the whole thing. You could go to my website, www dot AMI K wilson.com has Amy K wilson.com and Ami K wi ll so when and you can send me a message and say Whitson weights and I would love to send you a five day fat loss blueprint or if you are an Instagramer hit that follow button and send me a message that you listen to me on waits and waits and I will send you a five day fat loss blueprint that has lots of different recipes to help you get started and make it not so hard. Awesome.
Philip Pape 49:58
So we will throw that in there. MBK wilson.com And your IG handle, which is what
Amy Wilson 50:03
again, at is the nutrition coach, pharmacist, nutrition
Philip Pape 50:07
coach pharmacist and let her know what's in waits, and then I'll unlock the secret code to the five day fast blueprint and she'll send it along your way. Amy, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for sharing all your wisdom and your insight with us today.
Amy Wilson 50:19
Thanks for having me.
Philip Pape 50:22
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of wit's end weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their weights or weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.
